04-05-2007

Prius vs. Hummer

A recent editorial in the Central Connecticut State University Recorder Online has a surprising and sad analysis of the hybrid Toyota Prius. Apparently when you take into account the overall environmental footprint of the car, especially the multiple batteries required for the hybrid engine, the Prius is not all it’s cracked up to be.

The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

UPDATE: A more thorough analysis of the Prius lifecycle and additional background on the editorial above can be found in the April 16 article Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth on The Car Connection. The article may raise more questions than it answers, but it is definitely a more thorough analysis than the editorial I originally pointed to.

Posted by Matt in general | RSS 2.0

10 Responses to “Prius vs. Hummer”
  1. Jeremy Says:

    I have pretty mixed feelings about the article. On the one hand, there’s nothing I love more than when the press does some behind-the-scenes research and does a big ‘the emperor has no clothes’ reveal. On the other hand, the article just doesn’t feel very balanced.

    The author spends a nice big paragraph on the Prius’ gas mileage, then forgets to mention that the Hummer’s gas mileage, while officially not published by GM (what is up with that?), has been estimated around 10mpg. edmunds.com doesn’t have the 08 Prius data up yet (it still lists the 07 model, with the 51-60mpg), so I’ll take the 45mpg line as truth for now.

    Estimating that the Prius will only last 100k miles and the Hummer will last 300k miles, then basing all the cost estimates on those numbers is pretty weak. Seriously, a Toyota Prius will just stop functioning at 100k, and a Hummer H2 will keep on trucking all the way up to 300k?

    If you want to focus on actual money coming out of your wallet, how about taking the average number of miles a person drives in a year (12,000), then calculating the total fuel cost over the first 3 years of ownership? Using the current national average gas price ($2.70), you get:
    3 years Toyota Prius (45mpg): $2,160
    3 years Hummer H2 (10mpg): $9,720
    Cost Difference: $7560

    My above grousing aside, I actually agree with the author’s wrapup – I think it is a better decision (financially and environmentally) to pick up a small gas-only car like a Scion xB, Toyota Yarus or Honda Fit – proven technology, way less complex, lasts longer, and you avoid the whole battery thing while getting gas mileage in the mid-30s. Here’s the math on the Fit:

    3 years Honda Fit (34mpg): $2,700

  2. Matt Says:

    I had mixed feelings about the comparison too. Like a lot of arguments I read on the web, I’d love to read a well-informed person’s rebuttal. I agree that the wrap-up part about the Honda Fit is some of the most interesting stuff in the piece.

    One of the things I took away from the article is that it’s easy to miss the forest for the trees when evaluating things as complex as cars.

  3. Mark Says:

    Personally, I read the article and I’m certainly in the Prius camp from the perspective that I view the manufacturing process as black-box.

    I’m sure if Toyota sees a more cost effective way to get nickel foam into their battery they’re on it. Since they like most other Japanese companies are not in business of intentionally loosing money to inefficiency. So I’m sure if a better process comes along they’ll do that.

    The article then shifts into a rather slanted cost of ownership discussion – well described by others here. When purchasing my new car, my alternative choices were a choice between a Saturn, A Hyundai Elantra or Sonata or a Prius, since they all came comparably equipped.

    As I neither have nor want a clue as to what the Saturn manufacturing process is or the Elantra, I’m sure that both Ford and Hyundai have done their best to minimize cost and hence waste.

    The cost at the end of the day between the 27MPG Saturn and my 44MPG Prius, about 4000 bucks. Since I drive about 25000miles a year and the way I figure, pretty much by the end of year 3, I’ll have saved whatever markup/premium I paid. And that really is my point.

    Under any number of conscribed conditions, I’m sure a Hummer might make sense. If my commute involved fire and brimestone and fording a river or something else off-road – A Hummer is a good choice. Like most commuters, I drive long some distance on paved roads with limited amounts of fire and brimestone, so a Hummer is not a good fit for me.

    Foreign policy being what it is and with no real prospect of becoming better anytime soon, I have no desire whatsoever, to get squeezed every time some 2 bit politician or extremist, of any number of the oil producing or consuming countries chooses to make some ill-considered statement.

    I don’t fear the day when gas goes over 3$ or 4$ and stays there, I’ve planned as best I can for it. Personally I notice the price of gas only when it approaches or goes over about 3$, and it doesn’t really start to become a nusiance for me until it hits 4$. If/when it starts going much higher than 6$ or so, it’s time for everyone to start rethinking their relationship to their cars.

    At even where it is (about 2.80/gal), had I for some reason chosen a Hummer, I’d be spending somewhere between 70 and 140 at the pump and with milage what it is, well, I could be there a few times a month. So at a certain point I begin to wonder while driving my Hummer, Hum…I spend just under 1000$ on gas every couple of months or so. Now I know why it’s called a Hummer, and why someone at Exxon or BP has got a grin a mile wide.

    Bottom line, the US consumes the stuff, the Arab (world and some notably terrorist friendly nations) produces the stuff. Since I cannot practically extract myself from this unhappy relationship – yet, I choose a Prius – which causes ME and everyone else, the least pain until either they, someone else or I figure a way out of the problems with associated with Oil.

    I’m sure I could spout on about various reasons and rationales, but I bought a Prius movitvated primarily by self-interest, while I encourage dig deep reporting, I’ve informed myself as much as I care to and I’ve made my choices.

    It may seem arrogant of me to say to be sure, but that’s a quality that neither a Hummer driver, a Prius driver or most any other American I know suffers a shortage of when it comes to this topic.

  4. wallofcheese Says:

    The original article you link to is an opinion piece (i.e., no fact-checking) for a college newspaper that publishes wild claims in a pathetic attempt to draw attention to itself. In February, The Recorder published “Rape only hurts if you fight it” and now in March, “Prius outdoes hummer.” This newspaper and this article are garbage.

    1. Regarding new EPA mileage estimates, Demorro claims the Chevy Aveo’s mileage puts it within “spitting distance” of the Prius. The new EPA combined mileage put the Chevy Aveo at 26 mpg, the Toyota Prius at 46 mpg. So I guess 20 miles more per gallon is “spitting distance.”

    2. The “Dust-to-dust” study is from a marketing firm, not a science journal. It arrives at an artificially high cost for the Prius by assigning it an arbitrary lifespan of 100k miles, and a Hummer 300k miles. There’s Prius being used as cabs that have 200k on them now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8839690/

    And, insofar as a car lasting, what car do you expect to repair less? A Toyota Prius or a GM Hummer? You can check Consumer Reports for the answer to that one. A good analysis of the flaws in dust-to-dust is available at:
    http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=48

    3. The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies — early 1970’s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury’s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Blaming Toyota for the pollution at Sudbury is ludicrous. Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel. The Mail on Sunday newspaper, which ran the story the college article is a thin re-write of (visible here http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770 ), used a stock photo you can buy online taken in 1994 to illustrate the pollution (visible here http://www.photoboy.com/bin/Cklb?vmo=1173985067754 ). There were, of course, no Prius in existence or being manufactured in 1994.

    Furthermore, Sudbury is no longer this polluted, as INCO and the city have planted over 8 million trees there since 1979. The best history online of the Sudbury devastation/reforestation comes from GM Canada — that’s GM, maker of the Hummer, ahem, writing about how Sudbury was polluted and how it has come back. Really, one should blame Chicago more than Toyota, as Sudbury’s trees were all cut down in 1871 to help rebuild Chicago after the fire. GM provides telling photos of some of the reclamation from 1979 to present.
    http://www.gmcanada.com/inm/gmcanada/english/about/MissionGreen/Daily/Sep22.html

    Canadian news recently broadcast a show on Sudbury’s regreening (the acid rain problem David Martin of Greenpeace is talking about is the situation pre 1972):
    http://www.cbc.ca/clips/rm-hi/mackinnon-sudbury070312.rm

    The author of this article, Demorro, is so fact-challenged that in his follow-up piece, wherein he admits CNW’s Dust-to-Dust is suspect, he continues his Prius-bashing by recommending people buy a Tesla Roadster instead for a mere $30,000. (http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=203). The Tesla Roadster actually costs $92,000. Demorro can’t even get the list price of a car right; I seriously wouldn’t trust his opinion on hybrids.

  5. Dave Says:

    I’m a conservative…

    Economic conservative.

    Social conservative.

    Conservative driver.

    I bought a Prius because I knew three other Prius owners who could verify the MPG (of ca. 50 MPG) and comfort of the vehicle.

    We test drove and made the decision.

    We paid $25K for this 2006 Prius.

    NB: We did NOT have the $50K for a Hummer.

    Gas is over $3/gal. We commute 100 miles per day, five days a week.

    We save ca. $70 per week in gasoline costs because the Hummer is rated ca. 15 MPG. Each month, that’s 3/4 of our car payment for the Prius.

    We bought the Prius because we commute and we need to save money on gas. We’ve happily been doing this. NB: We did not buy the Prius to make an “environmental” statement or to be “green.”

    We DO NOT need Rush Limbaugh’s help encouraging meatheads in SUVs to tailgate us down the highway! Conservatives buy and drive Prii (Pree-eye).

    And, yeah, if you drive any vehicle like an aggressive jerk, you’ll probably get poor mileage.

    Dave

  6. Scott Says:

    A few observations and questions…
    We have a friend that has a 2000 VW Golf with a TDI (turbo diesel) engine. She reports it gets 41 mpg city and “over 50 mpg” on the highway. Not too shabby for a “regular” economy car that uses a “standard” fuel.
    I’ve heard from people who have owned Prii (Pree-eye) that their mpg’s start out high, but reduce over time. Also, the recharging through braking system is great if you live in an urban environment with lots of stop-and-go traffic, but how well does it work on the open highway or in more rural areas?

    Scott

  7. Timothy Says:

    The Prius is a silly compromise which I do not like (I think fully electric vehicles should be our priority) but this article is so full of holes, it doesn’t even begin to be able to hold any water.

    I’ll mention one, giant, gaping hole: Nickel. They base most of this on the environmental damage of the nickel produced in order to make the battery. Here is why that is a blatant, manipulative, bullcrap argument:

    1) almost all of the Nickel in the world produced today is being used for metal alloys, such as stainless steel and such, and for plating things. The amounts converted for use in a NiMH battery is absolutely -miniscule- compared to that. I wonder if they investigated how much nickel is in the Hummer? I would bet more than is in the Prius battery. In fact, I know it’s more, but I’ll leave that to you folks to look for :)

    2) The NiMH battery used in the Prius is being replaced with a Lithium battery that is 100% safe, and BIODEGRADABLE even.

    3) Battery recycling is so ingrained in our country that we have a better than 95% participation rate with car batteries and such. There is no reason to think that a Prius won’t have its battery recycled. It will.

    People who are against alternatives are just naysayers who don’t want the status quo to change, who like their big trucks and guzzling engines.. all of which is going to change in less than 10 years. No matter how many of these articles are written, or online debates we have.

    As for me, I drive a diesel VW. I love me some 50MPG on Biodiesel. Talk about low cost driving!! Buy a VW SUV if you want something Tank-like. They have a TDI version that can “climb straight up a vertical wall” and still deliver 38MPG.

  8. Big Blue Milk Float Says:

    [...] friendly the Prius actually is, from the Sudbury strip mines to why you should be cycling anyway (example) but given that I need my car to keep your lights on I think I’ve made a positive choice. [...]

  9. Dan Says:

    1 recycling of batteries is for LEAD based batts, not nicad. Strike one.

    2. The nicad batts have to be replaced every 100K miles or less (actually, there is a high degree of DOA batts with nicads). Strike two.

    3. Plus, the complaint about these batts is for what Toyota is using NOW not what it hopes to use in the future. Strike three.

    You’re already out but also keep in mind that C02 is not a pollutant so the emmissions of this gas should not be included in the environmental footprint of either vehicle. Neither contribute to global warming but even if they did it would be a good thing since the earth is in a cooling cycle.

    Bottom line, if you like the
    Prius, go for it. But not because it is “green” because it is not.

  10. Fred Says:

    Are we here to discover the truth or to influence people to our opinion any way we can right or wrong. If the we are looking for the truth, we would deal with all the issues and address them specifically. If we are trying to manipulate, then we use generalities and hope the people reading this won’t think about it themselves.

    We all have a right to our opinion, but if you want to give that opinion to others, it might be a good idea to do some research and read the source material before you criticize it. This is not to say there is nothing to criticize in the dust to dust report. Criticize away and tear it apart, but know what you are talking about first. Having read both sides I can tell you that there is more to this than most of you realize and it can’t all be dismissed in a sound bite. For example there are reasons, based on data for setting the average life of a Prius at 100,000 miles at the time the report was written. There may be flaws in these reasons, but if there are, no one who reads this column will know them because no one here addresses those reasons.

    I am not saying that one side is right or wrong, I am saying that there is a third side that just wants to know the true data and doesn’t really care about who looks good afterwords.

    Those of you who are on this side of trying to find the truth in all this can start by reading the source material from CNW and their rebuttals to some of their critics, (including the 100,000 mile life limit). You can find this at http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/ You can find the critics on the two links in the first post and at http://www.slate.com/id/2186786/ There may be more if you search the net.

Leave a Reply